A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
We called up someone this morning who can speak more to tensions between Senate Republicans and President Trump. Political strategist Doug Heye served as communications director for the Republican National Committee. He also spent time as an aide and staffer in the Senate and the House. We spoke with him before the president moments ago called off the planned signing of that bipartisan housing legislation. Let's start with what Virginia Senator Tim Kaine on All Things Considered said yesterday.
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TIM KAINE: For now, I want to just make sure everybody understands what a big deal it is when, in the middle of this conflict, Congress of two Republican Houses have looked the president in the face and said, this war is illegal, it's time to stop it.
MARTÍNEZ: So Kaine there talking about limiting President Trump's war powers in Iran. And the president called the resolution poorly timed and meaningless, and he's right - you know, the second part, meaningless. It doesn't carry the force of a law behind it. So what do you think, Doug? Is this a big deal?
DOUG HEYE: It is and it isn't, for the reasons that you just stated.
MARTÍNEZ: OK.
HEYE: And look, Republicans have been clear - usually more in private, what we've read about in meetings, than in public - that they want to be involved in this process. And one of the things that this administration, that this president has never done, going back to the State of the Union Address, is give a simple roadmap of, here's what we want to do, here's what our objectives are, here's how we define victory. That still exists today, and that's a big part of the Republican frustration that we're hearing about.
MARTÍNEZ: Is there anything to the fact that Senator Dave McCormick and Mitch McConnell had missed - they missed the vote, and the Senate voted at 50-48. So if they would've been there, maybe it gets defeated by JD Vance.
HEYE: Sure. Look, math is hard. Math is hard in the United States Senate. It's hard in the House of Representatives as well. When you have slim margins like this, any absence can cause a real problem legislatively or even on something in a resolution for the administration. How many times have we looked at House votes to see who's absent and who isn't with Tom Kean, the Republican member of Congress from New Jersey, who's been out for three months? That makes Mike Johnson's job just a little bit tougher. Obviously, John Thune has some of those problems as well. McCormick was with Trump, so he certainly had a valid excuse with the administration for why he wasn't there.
MARTÍNEZ: Nevertheless, are you sensing any shift - significant or otherwise - in the party away from Donald Trump?
HEYE: Not anything significant, and not anything that we'd know yet. Look, we've heard a lot of stories of tense meetings with senators at the Wednesday lunches yelling at White House staff, secretaries, appointees and so forth. Donald Trump's going to be at that lunch today. There's a big difference between yelling at staff members and yelling at the president to his face. We'll see how much we hear of that today.
MARTÍNEZ: What do you consider the biggest risk between the president and Republicans on Capitol Hill?
HEYE: The biggest risk is what we've seen so far this year, that we're not focused on the issues that voters are very clearly saying that they're focused on, and that starts with affordability. Obviously, the war in Iran is a separate problem but certainly impacts that as well. And Republicans - and frankly, Democrats as well - want to be talking about, here's what we're trying to do to reduce costs. And it's why I think the legislation - the 21st Century ROAD to Housing Act that passed with huge bipartisan numbers in both the House and the Senate - deserve a lot more attention than they've gotten. We've spent a lot more time in Washington, D.C., on reflecting pools than smart legislation that Republicans and Democrats can talk about in their districts.
MARTÍNEZ: You know, Doug, I just - earlier in the show, I spoke to Mike Lawler, a Republican congressman from New York, about whether for him, if it was a dance, you know, on the line between, you know, not alienating the president, but also, you know, maybe trying to not alienate the voters who might, you know, penalize him for his association with Trump. And for him, he said it wasn't a dance at all. But how risky is it at this point for any Republican to go against President Trump with the midterm elections coming up?
HEYE: Well, it depends on what it is. We've seen Republicans have been able to be critical of the president anytime they want to, depending on what the issue is. And so Lindsey Graham can be very tough on Donald Trump on Tuesday and somehow manages to be on the golf course with him on Saturday. What it means is that they can't be critical of Trump on those things that are capital-T Trumpy. And this is where the War Powers Resolution really comes into play. That he lost that vote is something that he's going to bring up in that lunch today. There's no doubt about it.
MARTÍNEZ: So that - you think that's going to be No. 1 on his agenda for that lunch?
HEYE: Well, you never know what's No. 1 on Donald Trump's agenda because there's the obvious of what we would think it is, and Trump is well known to go in any direction he certainly feels is in his interest at that very moment.
MARTÍNEZ: All right. That's former Republican National Committee communications director Doug Heye. Doug, as always, thanks.
HEYE: Thank you. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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